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Technics SL-DZ and SL-MZ1200 official info
Technics SL-DZ and SL-MZ1200 official info
Posted by Gizmo on January 29, 2004 :





Technics have finally released specs and images for the forthcoming SL-DZ1200 CD deck and SH-MZ1200 mixer.

The official release

Technics’ DJ SYSTEM goes digital

with new SL-DZ1200 Direct-Drive digital turntable

and SH-MZ1200 DJ mixer

ANAHEIM, Calif. (January 15, 2004) Ύ Known for their quality and durability, Technics SL-1200 series turntables have been a favorite of professional DJs who demand high-performance equipment for optimum creative expression.  Now Technics extends this reputation into the digital era with the introduction of the SL-DZ1200 Direct-Drive Digital Turntable with SD Memory Card slot and the SH-MZ1200 DJ Mixer with four-channel play mode and other digital features.

"Technics has kept at the forefront of audio technology by introducing legendary changes in the industry, ” says Jim Kiczek, national marketing manager for Technics turntable products.  "That reputation continues with the new digital turntable and matching DJ mixer designed specifically for professional DJs.”

The new digital turntable allows DJs to play several music formats, including CD-DA, AAC, and MP3.  To add to the DJ's performance, the new unit allows sampled data to be digitally stored on a removable and reusable SD Memory Card — a feature that offers high-speed data access, huge storage capacity, and super portability.  With the postage stamp-sized card, DJs can transport their music from one location to another or even download music samples* on their personal computer.

Turntable highlights include:

• Outstanding vibration resistance due to a rugged aluminum die cast upper cabinet with large double spring insulator feet and a tough CD mechanism.

• Seamless, instant cueing with four cue pads and memory for 10 cue points per an individual digital media such as a CD or SD Memory Card. 

• A traditional platter-edge strobe with a digital readout (BPM, play position, etc.), variable-range (+8 to +50) and a reset button, "Pitch Lock" (the ability to change the tempo without changing pitch), and "Reverse-Forward" mode.

Additionally, the SL-DZ1200 turntable has a vinyl sound simulator, sample pads, dynamic effects, platter Free Wheel (a feature not available on jog-wheel type CD players), adjustable braking rate and a selectable display angle to permit use of the deck in upright hip-hop style.  A Direct Drive motor system — offered first in the market by Technics to replace belt drive systems — has a quartz crystal control to provide accurate turntable speed.

The new digital turntable offers start-up speed options: a quick start-up time to full speed, making it possible to achieve extremely tight cueing, and a standard start-up characteristic of analog turntables.  The unit also features a distinctive slip surface on the platter that allows for "scratching."

A perfect companion for the new turntable is the SH-MZ1200 DJ mixer.  The new DJ mixer features a unique four-channel play mode feature, which provides surround sound at venues by assigning each track to Right/Left or Front/Rear.  The SH-MZ1200 digital mixer is fully equipped with 12 inputs (CD x 2, Line x 3, Phono x 3, Mic x 2, Digital x 2) and 7 outputs. (Master x 3, Headphone x 1, Monitor x 1, Recording x 1, Digital x 1) Each channel has its own 3-band equalizer with –24dB (12dB/oct) attenuation.

Five self-illuminating Cue buttons select from four source channels and the effects channel, with Monitor Mixing knob and Mono Split Mode for headphone monitoring.  Effects controls include level adjustment, Send and Return, a Pre/Post switch and individual effect On/Off switches for each channel.

Other features include:

• An optical Cross Fader, which uses microprocessor controlled VCA technology for extended service life and has three types of curves.

• Left/Right Split for independent fader and equalizer control over the left and right stereo channels.

• Separate Out to send Channel 1 or 2 to the front speakers, and Channel 3 or 4 to rear speakers.

• Fader-triggered start-stop for digital turntables, two digital inputs, and reverse selectors for all faders.

Technics turntables are marketed in the United States by Panasonic Consumer Electronics Company."


NOTE: No further comments are being accepted.
111 comments to this story

{subject}
On January 29, 2004, Glen said this:
They still sound sweet...but what about the price tag??

{subject}
On January 29, 2004, Me said this:
Probaly about a million (in pounds). I guess...

{subject}
On January 29, 2004, KID C said this:
I heard 900 pounds

{subject}
On January 29, 2004, Lee said this:
US Price is set at $1200 .... so about £700 in UK

Lee
www.dancefrontdoor.co.uk

{subject}
On January 29, 2004, Glen said this:
Thanks for the info guys....any idea of a release date for the US? I heard sometime this summer???

Another thing...it says in the description that you can rotate the display angle if you prefer the equipment in battle style, but wouldn't The CD loading mechanism rotate with it. If so, this would mean that the CD turntable on the left side of your mixer would load CDs where your mixer rests....

{subject}
On January 29, 2004, Gizmo said this:
Release date seems to be April 2004, though this does conflict with the release date of May that Technics told me.

You're quite right about the CD being covered by the mixer. The only reason for battle style is to get the tonearm out of the way. Not necessary for a CD deck though is it? If you're going to jump off the vinyl ship then learning new positions for start/stop and pitch is simply part of the non-vinyl learning curve.

{subject}
On January 29, 2004, 30 cal said this:
Man I need some money, maybe I can sell an organ?

{subject}
On January 29, 2004, Deft said this:
Yeah the point about the cd loading position is a fair one. The main reason i can see for them being rotatable is that people can transfer their routines more easily as the pitch control would be in the same orientation.
But yeah you'd have to have all your bits and bobs on one cd - load it up and then rotate the deck for the duration of the routine/showcase/whatever.
I think the conclusion i came to last time was that it was better to have the feature as it doesn't really have any negative implications - and if it helps a few people then it's all good......

{subject}
On January 29, 2004, bleh said this:
Link to the pic on the left is busted.

{subject}
On January 30, 2004, nugen said this:
will it play burned cd's?

{subject}
On January 30, 2004, DJ Double A said this:
A friend that already has a video link here, has tried them out first hand.......lets just say he wasn't very impressed by it.

{subject}
On January 30, 2004, deeznuts said this:
What's up with the platter being all shiny and silver ish... it looks dope. But everything i've heard out of people who went to NAMM makes me more interested in the CDX1

{subject}
On January 30, 2004, Gizmo said this:
Double-a - I know the video you mean... his face tells the whole story.

Deez - we're all intrigued by the CDX. Me and Deft played with it at PLASA and we're impressed. We feel it's the one that will get vinyl skratch djs to dip their toes in the darkside.

{subject}
On January 30, 2004, another junkie said this:
muhahahha dark side

{subject}
On January 30, 2004, petula said this:
$1200??!!!!.....man for that price i will pick a QFO (around $ 1300 as was said by yogafrog) and i d be definetely happier .. a cd player that simulates turntable analog function it s a fuckin' nonsense joke to me_

{subject}
On January 30, 2004, halfasemitone said this:
again, ignorance is bliss for those of you who do nothing but dis CD's. Sticking to vinyl just because it separates you from the everyday person who buys CD's and downloads MP3's doesn't make you better. You just chose a medium that will soon die anyway and will fade out due to it's lack of features, lack of convenience and technology.

A CD player that simulates a turntable is the future, everyone. You can't stop it. People who aren't impressed JUST BECAUSE it's a CD PLAYER doesn't mean it sucks. Shiny platter or not it's still keeping up with the competition such as the CDX-1. Again, all it takes is a company to make something that looks like vinyl, sound like your scratching vinyl, but really is a digtal medium...... OOOPS COMPANIES HAVE ALREADY DONE THAT. That's because there's a market for it.

Get with the times ladies and gentlemen. The digital audio manipulation age is on the rise. And even DJ's can't even save the life of vinyl now. It's marketing and dollars to them, convenience and paying less for music to us.

It's not about "using vinyl because no one else uses it" or "it just sounds better" even though you're not a studio engineer who's had 20 years of training in the high fidelity pro audio field. We're just scratch DJ's who don't realize that the phono pre amps in our over priced mixers completely SUCK compared to our parents old Sansui or Akai stereo reciever from 1979.

I wish someone would give a much better opinion of some of the digital gear that was informative and NOT biased just because it's digital.

{subject}
On January 30, 2004, halfasemitone said this:
"Gizmo - 01-30-2004 07:56 - ip logged
Double-a - I know the video you mean... his face tells the whole story.
Deez - we're all intrigued by the CDX. Me and Deft played with it at PLASA and we're impressed. We feel it's the one that will get vinyl skratch djs to dip their toes in the darkside."

You're right Gizmo, It will be the one to tip the scales on the DJ's who realize that vinyl is too heavy, plays too short of a track, and doesn't fit in your pocket too well will make the wiser decision.

All you need to do is put a fake tonearm on a CDX -1 and even the "CDs-just-suck-because-they-suck-DJ" won't be able to tell the difference.

I use a telephone and not telegrams, I use a computer and not a calculator, I use a car becuase horses aren't used for transportation on roads anymore. I just like keeping up with times that's all.

{subject}
On January 30, 2004, halfasemitone said this:
I agree with everyone here that these companies are charging way too much for these products. ESPECIALLY vinyl turntables. To make these products in the 80's was a much greater expense. For the CD-J technology. Come on. Why is it the prices of an average computer has dropped exponentially and the price of a CDJ is at least 900 bucks? These companies aren't making it easy for aspiring DJ's both vinyl and CD.

{subject}
On January 30, 2004, Gizmo said this:
Companies sadly aren't in the game to make us happy - first and foremost they're out to make money. The R&D that is involved in a device such as a new CD deck is hefty and in the short term we have to pay for it. And looking at the volumes that are being shifted, we're apparently more than happy to pay £800/$1200 for a CD deck. With CDJ1000/Denon DN-S5000/Numark CDX/Technics SL-DZ1200's all coming in at the same price, we'll soon see some downward movement in prices, especially as they want us to adopt the technology.

{subject}
On January 30, 2004, petula said this:
weird.gif

did i say "it s all about vinyl because no one else uses it..."??
no, i said (using a paradox) that $ 1200 are way too much money for a cd player wich act like a turntable (still doesn t even reach its essence of analog, really under your fingertips, device) when you can get with the same money 2 pro turntable (technics 1200) and one decent mixer (and if you buy a tascam xs-8, well built with lots of feature, you will have enough bucks to full a whole crate of records) that will last you all life long.

Put it like this: the all art of mixing (without talking of scratchin wich is even more obvious) it s borned and raised on the turntable because it s the best medium when it comes to direct manipulation and artistry...why ,talkin from your point of view, dj s did nt perform from the end of the '40/'50 on with the tape cassettes or magnetical tape? It s more easy to carry and the audio quality wasn t that worse compared to the old turntable..you can even record at home your own stuff... Because of the simple fact i mentioned above_
this said, face the simple fact that if you put a dj who master vinyl in front of any cd set he will make the gig works some how...what about a cd dj on decks??
i m not saying cd are not for the djs but as far as the all story goes i still love play my cds on a piooner 100s, and if i want scratch or do more complicate mixing i have my tech on the other side. Digital is good for this analog is good for that. (another whole argument are the audio-cpu interface like serato and/or final scratch)_
the fact that today we can use advanced computer drawning program doesn t stop artist who still want to express theirselves with painture!!!!
My opionion is that your issue is a bad generalization_
Does all this make sense in your book???

pz

{subject}
On January 30, 2004, texas pete said this:
"selectable display angle to permit use of the deck in upright hip-hop style." that sounds to me that you can change the display so you can emulate battle style on a turntable..... with this in mind here are a few flaws that i can spot
1. you only go battle style to give yourself more space from the needle & tonearm - there isnt one on the tech so whats the point! weird.gif
2. if it is in "battle style" how are you gonna put the cd in the deck? one of the decks is gonna be blocked by the mixer, unless there are 2 cd tray things! amazed.gif

anyway thats how i understand it anyway!

{subject}
On January 30, 2004, Glen said this:
Texas pete....both these points have already been made in previous posts...

As for the argument of rotating into battle style...I am a vinyl DJ myself. I do a lot of beat juggling and whatnot, and one of the things that i like to do when i'm going back and forth between decks is hit the stop button to drop out the track and then turn it back on very quickly. So i am very used to having the left turntable stop/start button right next to the mixer, not all the way to my left like it would be in a normal position. Just a preference really...i'm also used to having the pitch at the top of the turntable, which a lot of people who use vinyl are. So it would make sense for Technics of all companies to keep this in mind...

{subject}
On January 30, 2004, jayo said this:
Yeah I brought up that point months ago on dn-s5000's forum... Around the same time they where shown off in Japan.....

{subject}
On January 30, 2004, Biohazard said this:
halfasemitone -

People like you have been hailing the death of vinyl since the late 80's and it still hasn't happened. The reason I like vinyl is because of the warmth of the sound quality - plain and simple. Nothing, and I mean NOTHING can replace that for me, or any of the DJ's I know.

Another huge part of DJing is hunting down vinyl, and the knowing that if I have something on vinyl there is a pretty good chance that nobody else I know has it. And the things I buy on vinyl certainly are NOT available on CD or anywhere else for that matter.

Maybe I'm a vinyl snob, but downloading the latest top ten trance songs off of Kazaa, burning them onto a CD and beatmixing them does not make you a DJ.

{subject}
On January 31, 2004, halfasemitone said this:
If searching for records makes you a dj then everyone's parents who like music in the vinyl era is a dj. then my dad is a dj. The guy who where's the "I'm with stupid" t-shirt at the music store who can't even spell vinyl is a dj just because he collects records and hunts them down but he's never dropped a needle in a club EVER. I used to hate CD's being a full competitor in the DMC's in the late 90's and winning several DMC competitions and doing nothing but collecting vinyl. I've met the wonderful q-bert, been on a few videos, collected every video and held at least two copies of superducks when they first came out and bought two copies of Booger breaks directly off of q-bert when they weren't available in my are. I've been hailing the death of CD's since the late 80's. But then I woke up and smelt the coffee. Using the excuse of "warth and quality" on vinyl was lame since most of the music that was mastered in todays mastering houses were all done digitally. So no matter how you hear it, it always ends up digital and the very last step is analog. The mastering and recording tools back in the 50,60,70, and some of the 80's definitely aren't better than the tools now. So how can the quality be there?

And just because it was born and raised on vinyl and turntables doesn't mean it HAS to stay that way. You don't see conga players thumbtacking on an animal skin on a drum these days JUST because it's the old school way of doing it. Technology has given us new methods of tuning an animal skin on a drum. So again technology wins and the sound is the same if not better.

As for the art of mixing. All it takes is a CD deck that looks like a turntable but the format that is being manipulated is digital. The only reason why it was derived off of vinyl is because that was the only readily available medium back then. CD decks weren't. Tape is linear. CD's and vinyl aren't.

How more complicated can a mix be? Press play on a CD deck? Let go of a piece of vinyl with a minute push just to get it to 33 1/3 RPM is less than a quarter to make sure a beat lands on beat for turntables? Then you push and drag from that point on. Complicated is not a word used in mixing. Mixing is the easiest form of DJing these days. Scratching is what every "mix" dj from every radio station is asking me to teach them because of my DMC and local battle and gigging background.

As far as capturing essence of vinyl under fingertips. Again, no one will ever be able to tell the difference once that CDX comes out. Or when Tascam develops the TTM over time. Technology advances as Vestax and Technics (two brands which I completely respect and trust) do nothing but reinvent the wheel.... over and over again.

Here's a disadvantage of a CD deck just to satify the vinyl sheep. You can't emulate the scratch of a needle to cross diagonaly and land on a groove. Then you can't emulate the sound of a needle passing through the scratch after it has been made. You can't emulate the sound of a record annoyingly skipping over the same spot because of vinyl's delicate nature.

Here's a disadvantage of a Turntable just to satisfy the CD sheep. You can't loop. You can't play 74 mintues worth of music without flipping the disc over or switching discs. When someone who totally loves the set you're doing accidentally bumps into your setup your needle skips and ruins your set. The fact that you have to cut off your low end completely and put your turntables on top of bricks and foam and boxes and what ever you can find just so it stops rumble.

The future you guys. DJ's didnt' complain about the sound quality of Cd's in the eighties, they complained about lack of mixing ability that CD players couldn't offer back then. That's what kept vinyl alive. If they had the CDX in the 80's we wouldn't be having this conversation.

{subject}
On January 31, 2004, Ghost said this:
halfasemitone has a lot of good points in his posts up there

{subject}
On January 31, 2004, halfasemitone said this:
There's one extremely good point that Biohazard made in his post about mine. He mentioned the word "trance". This is proof that DJing whether scratching or just mixing doesn't have to stay in "hip hop". This is very important for the rest of the world to understand us as tableists. As soon as you say something like guitar is only for rock the jazz musicians show up to argue.... and win... and the country guys, and the pop guys, and the..... list goes on and on. The guitar fits in EVERY genre. So does the turntable or CD deck. But in order for a deck to be respected as an instrument is must be played like an instrument. And with that you must have the discipline to learn an instrument. Any genre you choose. Trance Hip hop house rock country waltz ..... doesn't matter.

{subject}
On January 31, 2004, petula said this:
the only good point, that has to verifyied yet, i see is his opinion of this infamous CDX; wich i do not know noting about so i can t talk about its potential and features. be sure though i will take my chance to personally check it out on the next Musikmesse or some shit like that,
but, ohwell..the discussion can go on forever, let me just tell you that i didn t ever think and say that the future technology couldn t reach and cover the full potential of the analog turntable device (where the "delicate nature" is at the same time its lack from a medium player device standpoint and its advantage from an musical intrument standpoint) but that the CD technology would hardly cover this gap. Primarly because of its nature: too "aseptic" and not interactive enough (in the sense of direct manipulation, for sure you can add "analog like" features and knobs and buttons on every new model dropping every year by now till 2030, but you never won t be able, NEVER i tell you, to interact directly on the trasducer and the interchangable medium as you do with a traditional tt, and this is the structure/nature main difference between the 2 technologies and what make them so distant in terms of performance) wich is the only real reason that will always put the cd players as a SIMULATOR OF, always steppin' at, a fake, artifact imitation of possibilities only offered by the device it s trying to sobstitute (successfully on the player/record device side, as we all know)_ in other words i m still waiting for the next (real) big thing and for the most part feel skeptic about all the cd world related.

last words on your "disadvantage of a Turntable just to satisfy the CD sheep" issue; i don t think your arguments are really relevant ' cause, you know, there s a plenty of other instrument that need "environment requirements".. 1 for all the piano, that must be placed on a perfect plain surface for perform at its best..and this is only one example.
What i feel that has to be on top of this list is the limitation of the vinyl medium to allow the consumer to produce his own wax as long as playin it. This i think is its greatest limitation.
So Vestax , Stanton, Technics etc. if you are reading this: what about a cuttin lathe wired to a CPU equipped with a mastering /editing software???
:D :D :D

enough shit talked.-
i m out

{subject}
On January 31, 2004, Mista Ed said this:
one thing that bothers me about this deck.....

u cant use the whole surface of the platter....

so, what about all the scratchers with crazy record hand styles, or those that utilise the whole of the surface up to the spindle??

hmmm.....

{subject}
On January 31, 2004, DAVIECROCKET said this:
yeah, not being able to use the whole platter.....that sucks....
but to add effects and cue points and to be able to scatch with those effects.....thats cool...

{subject}
On February 1, 2004, Jake said this:
It seems the Analog/Digital argument will never be resolved, but I have to tell you what I think of this from a completely reverse view. I started Djing with A Pioneer CDJ 1K/ DJM600 set-up. I don't have to tell you that it cost me an organ or two. ($3300-ish). I learned to beatmatch, scratch, juggle, etc all with a great degree of difficulty, but I stuck to it and got proficiant. About 6 months ago I picked up a set of Tech 1200s and a Tascam XS-8 along with 20 records. Total cost for that set up was less than $1300. After spending about a month with the Techs, I am about to sell my CDJs. Whay? Because they are the most inaccurate hunks of crap I have ever used. I can match in about 10 seconds on a set of Quartz locked decks and walk away form them knowing they will not go out of sync. Not so with the CDJs. I have to constantly pitch bend and tweak to keep 2 songs that are maybe 2% off from each other in sync. If I pitch ever so slightly too much, there it goes and it aint coming back. Looking at my Techs, they are a technological marvel in thier own right. Beutiful in thier simplicity, yet amazingly complicated in what they can acheive.

I had the same "the future is CD" attitude and I always thought that vinyl users were a bunch of elitists, who were more concerned with looking cool that spinning a good set. I am here to say I was completely WRONG. I'm not going to bag on CDJs, because some great stuff can be done with them. But I for one have gone retro, and as long as they press wax, I'll spin it.

{subject}
On February 1, 2004, halfasemitone said this:
So after only DJing for say..... 3 years you decide to move to techs. Which is fine. I agree the CDJ 1K are in accurate compared to a Tech. This is why I keep telling everyone that when you see a table and feel a table but it's really a CD player you will switch. That's why the CDX is the only promising product out there besides systems like the final scratch and others. Final Scrach and Serato are exactly what I'm talking about. Look at a table touch a table, digital output. As technology progresses the step of a computer will be obsolete. Just like the Tascam TTM.

I come from a background of doing nothing but worshiping the DMC's. So accuracy on emulation is one trick that is hard to pass by me. Being that engineering is strong in my family.

The CDX playing a CD as a medium player is no different than tape deck playing a song or a normal home computer playing an MP3. As a medium player it does what it does. Plays a CD. The output is music. So there's no argument there that these companies are marketing towards a CD player that has the abilites to manipulate sound like a piece of vinyl on a turntable. And that's where technology wins again. Look like a turntable feels like a turntable the user STILL DOESN'T KNOW but the output is digital whether it's a CD or MP3 or DVD doesn't matter. The format in which the information is stored is in 1's and 0's but the output is transffered to analog. This is where everyone here is missing the point.

I guarantee that one day REAL SOON, DJ's won't be able to tell the difference between a digital output and an analog output. I bet if you were to round up most of DJ's online and have them watch someone mix from one final scratch record to another final scratch record with "record label" labels on them and a hidden computer they wouldn't be able to tell the difference cause they see a tech and vinyl. But the output is digital.

Sorry to say Jake but the comparison from a CDJ-1000 to a tech is not a fair one. The CDJ can "emulate" a turntable to a very small degree. The turntable will win for the simple fact that, well, there's a table that turns. Hands down the tech wins. That's not a turntable. That's a CD player with a jog wheel interface. The CDX on the other hand IS a turntable with a piece of vinyl on top. Put a tone arm on it and you have a "record player". The fact is on that piece of machinery it's platter is the direct drive design of a turntable. It is a turntable. There's a table turning. The medium is digital.

Now here's the question. If it tracks just as fast as needle then the CDX is the next best thing to step up. No CDJ-1000 no CDJ-800 can compare. If it doesn't track as fast as a needle then that sucks..... BUT it's only a matter of time. The CDJ-1000 technology of tracking digital audio was RELEASED in 2001 as was really good in it's time. Imagine the R&D of a product now.

Just like how Quicktime in the late 90's played a movie while it downloaded. You only saved maybe 6 seconds on a 10 minute movie but the connections for the internet just got faster and cheaper. And now you can't even listen to a whole MP3 without downloading one and half MP3's at the same time. The technology is quickly advancing.

If you want to know more about cutting lathes, read a book called "The Mastering Engineer's Handbook" by Bobby Owsinski. And then you'll realise that the dream of making GOOD, properly mastered and spec'd vinyl is extremely difficult and takes a good hand with good timing and a good pair of ears to do it. Our ears that are acustomed to the crappy preamps of our scratch mixers won't "cut" it.

{subject}
On February 1, 2004, Human Being said this:
I have to make a quick, slight disagreement with halfasemitone, the CDJ1000 handles very like a turntable, surprisingly so, Pioneer simply chose to reevaluate the rules bound to handling and manipulating audio.. the fact is, when your spinning cd's, regardless of "authenticity" the record does not have to spin. I have used many different turntables, I own over 6000 pieces of good vinyl, I spin primarily with 2 CDJ1000MK2's and 1 Technics 1210.. and I'm super impressed with my CDJ's. There is a certain charm that comes from records, but I have to say, crackle, warmth and pops are all side effects of turntable technology, you can get that same feel simply by recording the vinyl onto CD.

Human Being
http://www.pinkorchids.com/humanbeing.cfm

{subject}
On February 1, 2004, petula said this:
i know man....my statement was nothing more than a pure provocation. Sadlly the mastering and pressing of vinyl process it s a whole another art, where you have to litterally master expensive ( as hard-to-find to these days) equipment together with (deeply) sound engineering notions and a greeeeat amount of passion patience and dedication_
But you know,..just as we are on the subject that technology always win, and makes dreams come true, soon or late, i think no one should kill the hope. Speaking of facts i saw live the Vestax cutting lathe, and heard a lot about this swiss compact cuttin lathe; i must tell you that the response isn t very impressive , sloppy plastic material discs and bad sound, but they are only the first (and overall good) attempts_ i like to think that other companies are gettin involved in this type of ish, and will show something new in the near future_ Should i try to stop dream and wake up to reality?

{subject}
On February 1, 2004, Jake said this:
I guess my biggest gripe with the CDJs is for the money and supposed techological advances I was somewhat disappointed in the decks accuracy. When put up against the "low tech" Technics, the mechanical deck was miles ahead of the so called "future of Djing."

What does this tell us to look forward to? Perhaps in the next few years and many thousands of dollars later, the modern CD decks will be on par with the decades old Technics. As far as sound quality goes, that's not the real issue in my opinion. It's the usability of the device as an accurate mixing tool and so far CD decks (again...my opinion) don't cut it.

On the flipside, I see that Technics did something with their CD decks that no one else has done which may change my mind about accuracy. They had the smarts to include quartz technology. We shall see....

{subject}
On February 1, 2004, professorbx said this:
Petula-funny you should mention the lost art of vinyl mastering/cutting.....who knows? Maybe someone will be doing something to help out in the very near future, hehehe.....

{subject}
On February 2, 2004, halfasemitone said this:
Human Being- I own a set of CDJ-1000's and a pair of 1200's. I went from the 1200's to the CDJ's for several reasons. Vinyl had too many problems with them as posted in my posts (skipping, delicate, can't make another copy without losing sound quality incase something happens to the disc because of forces unstoppable).

The money? I'm on your side.

The technology? At the time the CDJ's were released those were something that started a nick in time that would change the world of DJ products. If it didn't, then there wouldn't be a button on the top of that nav bar that says CD decks. What other CD deck out there can do what the CDJ does? When those came out the DJ world freaked out. Look how many professional artists have the CDJ's in thier band rider. The accuracy of a CDJ sucks I know. But again it's only getting better and soon artists will have more choice to add to thier band rider.

Human Being - I too am impressed with the CDJ due to it's rule breaking technology and you're right, Pioneer did reevaluate the way companies thought. I wish that I was part of these companies R&D departments. I wouldn't give them so much red tape on the development of these products. I would head in there without the whole vinyl is king attitude and help figure out ways to manipulate digital audio the way we manipulate analog audio. You're right there is a certain charm about records. To my audience (and to most audiences) it just looks cool. They don't know why but it just looks cool. "It's the cool thing to do". That's why most people who start DJing just cause it looks cool usually sell thier gear in a year because it takes practice and skill.

As to getting the same feel of a record being recorded onto CD? I don't know about that. The reason why I harp on the CDX's is because you're touching vinyl but the medium is digital. If you're talking about the hi-fi audio file side of the "feel" then I'm mistaken and I apologize. You're right, recording technology is pretty far along and CAN make a record sound pretty good on CD if done properly.

6000? I know how you feel. I have storage lockers of vinyl from all over the world from my touring times. I used to be in a whole whack of record pools and now in CD pools. I understand the feel of vinyl very well.

petula - The companies who attempt in making cutting lathe products for the home user should give free courses on the history of vinyl mastering, the tools of vinyl mastering and the techniques of vinyl mastering. The day they simplify the process of GOOD recording, GOOD editing, GOOD mixing, GOOD overdubbing, GOOD leveling, GOOD eq'ing, GOOD feathering, GOOD mastering and so on, I"LL buy a cutting lathe. Some things should be left to professionals. If I want to cut lathe vinyl I better want to because the process is definitely not easy.

If anything, these companies shouldn't be reinventing the wheel with the turntable, they should be reinventing the medium so many pretend to hold so dear to them.

Jake (from earlier post) a tech or a cd player will never track accurately to the point where you can leave your decks and the mix will keep on mixing. ESPECIALLY on a turntable. Due to chaos theory a record will never accurately play 33 1/3 rpm. It will come close due to the quartz technology but due to the minor error of the eccentricity of a record the BPM will waver great or small depending on where the needle is on the record. This is corrected by pushing and dragging.

A CD won't be able to keep BPM accurately due to the amount of error caused by the time compressor/expander. The algorithms that are built into speed up and slow down a CD have a huge margin error but are corrected by pitch bending.

All and all both those mediums can't lock into a BPM accurately becuase it doesn't know how the song being played was recorded. If I was mixing two rock songs of very similar BPM on a tech, they would lock for a little bit then go out of whack because there was a human drummer on the recording. And you know how humans are with time. We can come close, extremely close but we aren't mechanical. That's what makes a groove, well... groove. The idea of walking away from a mix means that the mix will go out of whack due to the points I made earlier.

Think I'm BS'ing about the eccentricity thing on a turntable? Look at the manual in your SL-1200 box. They mention the lack of time locking due to this phenomenen.

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On February 2, 2004, halfasemitone said this:
professorbx - The art of mastering vinyl isn't lost. It's still there just not in demand. Many vinyl mastering engineers have lost thier jobs since the demand of vinyl declined. There was alot of work when the common household used vinyl but not anymore. Everyone of these mastering houses has a digital setup in it.

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On February 2, 2004, Jake said this:
halfasemitone- I agree with you on that. I have had a few instances though where I matched up 2 tracks on my 1200s and they played in sync to the end without me touching them. I kid you not. I have NEVER come close on my CDJs. If I stop paying attention to them for more than a few seconds, I have a trainwreck on my hands. With my Techs, the slightest push or drag puts me back on without any audible corrections.

I have first gen CDJ 1Ks. In hindsight it's kind of bitchy of me to want them to be perfect. Nothing man made is. I just feel I have a greater degree of control and accuracy on vinyl. And I thought it would be the other way around.

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On February 2, 2004, halfasemitone said this:
As technology adjusts to our needs and companies read these posts the products will get better. The corrections are audible just slight. CDJ or any CD player that's not set to 0% will error due to the calculations that the CD Player must do on the fly. This will change in the near future since the sampling rate of standard audio will go up. For now CD redbook is at 44.1 kHz at 75 frames per second. I currently record on protools at 192kHz at the local studios and I tell you the quality is bar none. The time compression/expansion algorithm used by protools 192kHz is amazing. Hardly any artifacts or any quantization, this will be the next generation of digital audio. If players can play MP3's then these machines will soon adapt to the higher standard. You can find these new standards specs and how they work in "The Mastering Engineer's Handbook". The math for digital audio is getting so complex that quartz locking won't be necessary.

The only degree of control you need on a turntable for mixing would be to push or drag like a pitch bend. This will done the exact same way on a CDX so the argument on which medium provides better control over mixing for pushing or dragging cannot be made. Since the CDX is tracked by a direct drive platter then there is no arguement on that specific point between digital versus analog.

I have first gen CDJ-1ks myself. I knew they weren't perfect when the platter didn't spin. But I knew the benefits of these products would lead to different things. I want the CDX's to come out but Numark isn't making enough noise about them.

Technics was on a roll with this CD Player. I know the guy who translated the manuals from Japanese to English. I didn't get much out of him but I was dissapointed when I found out through photos that the platter was NOT a standard Technics 12" platter. Technics, what were you guys thinking?

Jake - As for songs locking up, I've done the same thing when I first got my techs. The thing is the songs will never lock up. There will always be some degree of waivering due to the chaos theory explained. This would sound like "flanging" to you guys. But in fact it's just two tracks waivering in BPM. I'm sure you can come close since in electronica and most hip hop music the recording process all the way to the packing is done digitally. So a drum machine recorded on vinyl mixed with another drum machine recorded on vinyl will lock up pretty close. Then comes the push and drag show.

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On February 2, 2004, petula said this:
oh...shit, i guess the Prof is workin' on some next level stuff.. please, tell us that is true!!!!

P.S. don t let Stanton fools you for put their brand name on it...they are well known as wack manufacturers of good ideas_ :blink:

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On February 2, 2004, Daywait said this:
Yada yada yada...

Guitar & Electric Guitar
Piano & Electric Piano
Drums & Electric Drums
Violins & Electric Violins
The list goes on and on and on...

---- Then we have ----

Analog Tables and Digital Tables

Now... Not much difference between any of those... The former are used in conjunction with each other (and peacefully so I might add)... Why would the latter be any different? Don't be stupid. Different personalities of the artists mean difference preferences for the equipment.

Stop trying to convert each other... Just do your own thing and that's what you'll be known for.

As for the Technics... They look sweet... We'll see what happens and how they fare.

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On February 2, 2004, cheekychops said this:
halfasemitone told it how it is, everyone else got served, the end

props

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On February 2, 2004, Human Being said this:
good responses.. I'll be honest, I don't have to beatmatch much, so I guess that element has gone unnoticed.. I would like more control from the CDJ, but I'm happy with it and if the trend continues, higher sampling rates, etc., these can only be good things. I respect vinyl, but CDJ is a necessity for me, the problems with vinyl bug me a lot, skipping needles whilst scratching, etc. I also don't like the idea of waiting to cut a record just so I can play it.. with my CDJs I can make a track in the morning and play it that night.

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On February 3, 2004, halfasemitone said this:
Daywait - You're right there's not much difference between the two in terms of sound. Mentioning Electric guitars and Guitar comparisons are awesome because I'm a musician. But here's the thing. Some songs are more appropriate for electric. Some are more for Acoustic. The reason why the preference is there because of the musical situation of MAKING MUSIC.

DJing on the other hand as far as gear wise doesn't demand this to a certain extent. If I was playing a track on Vinyl and people were loving it, it wouldn't make a difference if I was playing it on CD or even on tape, or even on 8 track! If I was performing a mellow slow song by myself with an electric guitar turned waaaaaaay up with imense distortion and crunch tone that wouldn't be appropriate. But then again I can turn down the distortion and crunch and make a clean electric tone.

My point is you're right, preference is a major part of this for guitars. As far as DJing gear, the line between digital and analog is smeared so far to the point where in a blind folded test we wouldn't be able to tell if a track was on vinyl or if a track was recorded on vinyl or straight mastered to the CD. Lucky for us DJ's we don't have to worry about stuff like "crunch tone" or "distortion-death-metal-face-melting-tone". It's already taken care of in the track we're playing. We just have to make sure we press play.

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On February 3, 2004, Shady/Aftermath said this:
Give it up Technology changes. look now a days u don't see ppl using anything from the old days we are all connected through wires right here and not using the pony express. it's the same with the analog and digital. in case u havn't noticed we have digi cams and recorders now. let me ask u this are u going to switch back to vhs over dvd's just because the cds can skratch and ruin the movies? i'll give u my answer no , because vhs wears out and dvds only stop playing if they have a crack not a scratch. ponder this comment and think about giving up the new technolgy issue.

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On February 3, 2004, BlaBlaBla said this:
Shady / Aftermath ...Well said!

Bring on the future and what it can bring to the scene.

Gizmo keep up the good work!

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On February 3, 2004, deeznuts said this:
i see no problems utilizing both.. they both have their pros and cons. i have 2 ttx1s and will probably have 2 cdx1s in the future right next to them...

actually i've considered going with 2 of 1 and just 1 of the other.. but not sure if i want 2 cdx's and 1 ttx1 or 1 ttx1 and 2 cdx's....

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On February 3, 2004, skratchboarder said this:
uuuuhhaaaa...i...i dunno...i don't mind cdj or vinyl decks...but as for me...i think in April i'll be one excited being...that Rane Serato Scratch Live drops...YEAH! definitely something to look forward to...saves me buyin another desk to extend for another pair of cdj's next to my 1200s...but as for all these new TECHNICS CDJ products...i'm totally not feelin any of it...Technics should be ashamed...NUMARK is gunna come with the thunder with their CDX compared to this...effects and all that jazz on the dz1200? ...pedals...fx pedals are the way to go...lol...

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On February 4, 2004, Alex Reynolds said this:
Are there any decks that have MIDI in/outs?

(I'd love to be able to control scratching with a sequencer -- or use the deck's scratch panel to control a software app, for that matter.)

-Alex

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On February 4, 2004, DJ Double A said this:
Boy, that was alot of reading.........but I noticed one point that seemed to pop up more than once....the spinning platter thing.

Well, if you guys are complaining that the CDJ's just don't do it for you, then get the DN-S500's. They have a spinning platter. They were the FIRST to come out with one on a CD deck. Why more people have not tried them is beyond me. (?)

And if you say the Denon's don't have an accurate scratch sound, or that the cueing is off a bit, have failed to keep up to the minute with the improvements the deck has gone through. The scratch sound is just as good if not better than the Pio's. The cue/scratch timing "problem" has been fixed (if you read the dn-s500.com board, you would know all this info already).

This was all possible due to the fact that the Denon's are easily upgraded via a DL'ed file from Denon (just like what numark is doing). Gee, I wonder where numark got that idea from? :blink:

I tried the Pios, Denon's, and about 4 other CD decks, and out of all those decks, I choose the one that came the closets to the "feel" of a 1200......that was the Denon 5000. It was also the only one with a spinning platter. (and if you are going to complain about the drive system, or the speed of the platter, then you are just trying to find excuses for NOT to try them out).

I myself felt the same way about the original 1200. I started spinning in 85, I loved my 12's when I had them. I said I would NEVER switch to cd's....I said I would never buy a CD DJ deck....I said I could never be able to get used to the smaller platter/jog wheels that some of these decks had.......that was until I tried some of the digital desktop decks last year.

I've used the dual decks from Denon and others before, but I needed the "drag feel" I felt when I held a record, when I was just about to scratch or cue it. The Pios didn't have that "feel", and the other's I tried just didn't do it for me either. That's why I got the 5000.

My friend that tried the Tech digital 12's was disappointed in the way it performed, and he had some issues with the Numark as well. These companies need to do more work to get it right.

Pioneer has been the industry standard, because they had the early jump start, and they are still there because they have the $'s to pay and or give away decks to the more influencial DJ's, so they can use thier products; when everyone knows that there is a better deck on the market right now. 8)

The Tech are not it, and I believe numark is on the right track, but they also need some work........ but you know what? I hated the fact that the original 12's were so heavy to begin with. What's the difference with the numarks? My back ain't what it used to be, and these numarks (even though they use a 12" record), are still just as big and heavy as a 1200, if not heavier.

IMO, I would rather have a smaller overall sized deck, that was lighter, was RELIABLE, and also had a GREAT customer support team if and when you needed tham. Anyone that owns a CDJ will know that the CS department is lousy, and just doesn't seem to care about the everyday type of DJ. They are more concerned about thier botom line. suspicious.gif


As for the "crappy" Denon (as some people have put it)......and also for all those people that need more conviceing, check out some videos that a friend has thrown together. He wanted people to see what the Denon's are capable of......and imagine, he's still learning what the decks are capable of. :blink:


Enjoy.

www.musicv2.com/artist/djdynamight




Oh, one more thing, I still have one 12 left........I needed something to play/transfer my music to the computer, so I could eventually burn and use in my 5000.

Vinyl cutter's? Pfft. rolleyes.gif


Peace, and keep it "spinning". (I guess Pioneer need not apply.......they don't spin.) :P

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On February 4, 2004, professorbx said this:
Double A-Numark actually was the first company to have downloadable upgrades to their cd players with the cdn88/axis 8.

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On February 5, 2004, deep_cut said this:
they look pretty tasty.
As to the long winded argument for and against obsoletion of vinyl, i prefer to actually see where i am placing with stickers to farting about pushing buttons trying to find where i have put a cue point in on track 77 of a break cd.

i'd certainly have one sitting next to my turntables as an addition, but never a whole setup...lol might as well buy a copy of PCDJ... The price of the unit is far to high as has been mentioned. so i'm going to wait till all the rich sucka djs have paid for the R&D costs before i get mine.

needle drops anyone?

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On February 5, 2004, DeeJay Random Steel Devils said this:
Hmmmm. call me an idiot but....
everyone seems to be striving for the "perfect" bit of equipment. the "perfect" sound. its all about "progression". Hmmmm.
its FUN to play scritchy-scratchy records. its FUN when someone knocks the decks. its FUN when you have a scratch on your record. thats what its all about isnt it? we are HUMAN after all, not digital. i dont think Hendrix would have a digital guitar if he was playing today. and not dead.
i see a lot of gimmicks. that havent caught on. and probably wont. why make a cd player that LOOKS, ACTS AND FEELS LIKE A TURNTABLE? bizarre.
keep it real? keep it simple.
that mixer looks fucking awful.

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On February 5, 2004, Ghost said this:
i've tried the Denon's...and yes they are the best cd decks out now(barely), but i still wouldn't buy one. the motor feels week(like all belt drives), and the scratch sound definitly isn't better than Pioneer's. i really want those CDX', i'd rather have a full sized deck than a smaller one like everything else out on the market. i've heard from people who have tried the Technics cd deck that it is indeed a sick deck, but then i hear from other people that it really isn't, but most of the people who say they aren't that great are either Denon Dj's or people who wouldn't try anything else other than a Denon.

DeeJay Random Steel Devils - so what if Hendrix wouldn't have a digital guitar, does that mean we all have to have analog decks or guitars just because he might have prefered them if he was alive?

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On February 5, 2004, the silver spinner said this:
No offense to any denon fans. But I ain't buying a belt drive when there are direct drive alternatives. I haven't used a belt drive for years and don't plan on "adjusting" to one.

I tried the Techs in Cali and I didn't come to the conclusion that your friend did, double. The main people I see knocking them are either affiliated with or work for manufacturers that currently market cd turntables. Seems like they are trying to create a negative buzz before they hit the market.

I try not to knock anyones choice. I don't care what you use as long as you are a good dj. I'm sure we have all witnessed people on 1200's that were unskilled dj's. Its not the equipment that makes the dj. Its what the dj can do with the equipment.

For whatever reason Pioneer right now is the choice of pros. Its been out longer and they spend the money to keep it in the public eye. A lot of pros use them and many clubs choose them.

It appears Denon created there deck that they believe is "superior" and expect them to sell on their own. They are not in the public eye, they don't advertise it enough and hell, they don't even keep the dealers supplied with the latest updates. wacko.gif I guess they figure word of mouth is good enough for them. unsure.gif Maybe they think that the web is all they need. I've been to their site and it appears to be more of a "fan boy" site. Those that don't conform to the norm (denon for life) or suggest that it needs help are often shunned.

If Denon stays that course they may well be on their way to becoming an asterik (worlds first active player). I'm sure Technics and even Numark will be more aggressive than Denon has proved to be.

When Vestax decided to compete with Technics, it didn't just send the turntables to dealers and hope that consumers would buy them. They got some big names to give credibility to their decks and that definitly helped their acceptance.

Everyones opinion should be respected but honestly, bedroom dj's, wanna-be dj's & hope-to-be dj's opinions don't carry the same weight to most as the opinions of well known and established dj's.

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On February 5, 2004, Ghost said this:
"It appears Denon created there deck that they believe is "superior" and expect them to sell on their own. They are not in the public eye, they don't advertise it enough and hell, they don't even keep the dealers supplied with the latest updates. I guess they figure word of mouth is good enough for them. Maybe they think that the web is all they need. I've been to their site and it appears to be more of a "fan boy" site. Those that don't conform to the norm (denon for life) or suggest that it needs help are often shunned. "

i was thinking the same thing

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On February 5, 2004, U-FESS said this:
I'm new to this message board and I've read everything on this page. Personally, I agree with everything halfasemitone said on here; he said every single thing I've wanted to say to my vinyl buddy who owns a pair of TT1625's and a Matrix 3. I have a pair of Axis 8's and a DM3002X mixer and I mix house. The first thing I'm gonna do when I get to the states in June is try out the CDX and the SL-DZ1200 and decide which I want. I bet the CDX is gonna kick ass, the SL-DZ1200 doesn't sound too great; Numark is good at everything they make.

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On February 5, 2004, 30 cal said this:
I just got a PSSL catalog and it has the CDX listed at 799$. I don't know about you guys, but I like the price on that.

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On February 5, 2004, U-FESS said this:
30 cal - the price looks good to me too, not expensive at all for what it does, especially compared to the SL-DZ1200 and the CDJ1000MK2.

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On February 5, 2004, U-FESS said this:
Ghost - I've always felt that the DN-S5000 is just.... simply too much. It's like it does everything for you; it's like it doesn't need you. I don't respect Denon very much for some reason. It's like Denon made somethin' so good that it backfired. I would still go for the CDX, even if both, the DN-S5000 and the CDX were for the same price.

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On February 6, 2004, halfasemitone said this:
Understand everyone that these few decks should not even be in the same catagory. Just because they all play CD's doesn't mean that that's the end all be all. Pretty soon we won't use CD's we'll be using another medium.

Denon? well my biggest problem with them is that it's not using a direct drive platter that's big.

Technics? well, they started the 12" platter direct drive whey didn't they stick to it? The whole idea is to have the feel of a record and platter WITHOUT the "fun skips" (annoying skips) in a record.

Pioneer? Don't get me started on how this technology is getting old fast. Put they were exactly what they're named. Pioneer. Maybe they might Pioneer a direct drive platter with thier DVD player?

Numark? Customer Support is terrible but the prices are looking good. PSSL catalog? Great, that means it's going to be pretty good here in the North. As for the design of it, so far it's the most promising one out of all the digital decks. But Numark is notorious for having incredibly shitty sounding D/A converters and terrible time compression/expansion algorithm programming.

----------

the silver spinner - even some of the dj's that "carry weight" I'm taking opinions of. Half of them have no technical background and some others can't explain half the stuff that makes a direct drive work. I think this is important to know how gear works since:

1) it's expensive and you pay for it, it's not a car it's just simple electronics that have nuances that make or break it from other products. i.e. Technics direct drive design vs. Vestax direct drive design. Which one has the better magnet and coil system?

2) Alot of my saxophone friends can tell if a sax is good for them or not just by playing a note. If a reed isn't right they get the right ones. They don't just sit there and go "I don't know it just doesn't feel right". They can explain why. THAT'S very important. When ever I ask "respected" dj's in my area why a mixer sucks they say "it just does". Dumb answer. Look at Ghost's post about the weak motor. That's a good answer.

DeeJay Random Steel Devils - why make a cd player that LOOKS, ACTS AND FEELS LIKE A TURNTABLE? Because there are too many problems caused with vinyl as stated in my earlier posts.

I think everyone here can agree that when someone hit's your deck you'd like to deck them a hit wouldn't you? Ever been to a party and the tracks are hot and everyone is dancing ON BEAT then the record skips and everyone sort of loses the groove? That's not fun. That's just being "HUMAN" after all and wondering why the mood drops when a song is skipping. Then the DJ has to pick up the needle and find a spot that doesn't skip. That's extremely embarassing

30 cal - I used to read those PSSL catalogues like they were novels. I remeber when they were just black and white!

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On February 6, 2004, U-FESS said this:
halfasemitone - Yeah, I'm sure the CDX is the only thing out there right now that can really do it, I'm already in love with it love.gif My pair of Axis 8's sound like shit when I scratch. Maybe Pioneer or Denon are comin' up with somethin' new right now? A better digital deck that will be announced soon?

Do you think the shitty sounding D/A converters and terrible time compression/expansion algorithm programming (which I'm not even 100% sure what they mean but...) are that big of a problem?

I would like to know how a direct drive works if someone could help me out, I'm interested.

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On February 6, 2004, deep_cut said this:
to be honest, you probably wont need a CDX to mix house music.

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On February 6, 2004, U-FESS said this:
Not everyone knows much about house music. Very few people are into house as oppose to those who are into trance, techno, hip-hop, etc...

For people who think "there's no difference between house and trance or techno." Yes there is, they are all electronic types of music. But trance and techno SOUND more electronic, house music never really sounds electronic and also, house was originally instrumental until the 90's maybe.

There are so many different types of house...
Deep, classic, funky, chill, tech, hard, tribal, jungle, 70's, 80's
and then there are blends of these different types and much more

I mix a lot of tech house and that's the type that you can really scratch in the most, and also hard house.

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On February 6, 2004, U-FESS said this:
Does anyone know about how long the CDX can play for after it ejects the CD?

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On February 6, 2004, Jake said this:
I am totally down with technology. My entire studio is one big digital signal path. But more and more I am finding myself seeking analog sources.

When I hear people say, we don't use pony express, or vhs because it's outdated, makes alot of sense to a certain degree. But when we are talking about professional applications, such as DJing or producing, etc. that doesn't not always hold true.

If you look at the highest end products for studio and live applications, you are seeing that valve and tube based souces are more sought after because of the quality. That is also reflected intheir price, granted, and expensive does not mean better by any means. I see more digital products out there trying to emulate analog vintages of the past. Why? If digital is the future then why try to imitate something it is not?

I really have no clue where vinyl will be in 20 years. But I am quite certain that digital DJing is here to stay and I'll embrace it. But I'm not pitching my records just yet.

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On February 7, 2004, halfasemitone said this:
Time compression and expansion algorithms are important to make sure that when you change the speed of a track is does it's best to keep the track sounding good sonically and to make sure that the track stays in time. It's a trade off though. If it stays in time then the sound has artifacts. If it sounds good then it won't stay in time. It's a balance that hasn't been good enough these days because we're stuck at 44.1kHz. This of course is in terms of live alogorithms.

A good D/A converter matters because if it sucks, the sound quality completely goes down the drain. This makes a big difference if you're at a gig with 100,000 watts of sound. In your bedroom, 40 watts won't make a difference if the sound quality sucks. If it's amplified at 100,000 watts with thousands of people, promoters and other people that might hire you, and your sound becomes "nails on a chalk board", then that could cost you the gig.

Tubes in a compressor and eq require a different purpose. They need to be sonically up to par because by the time it hits the dj's decks, it sounds like shit through the overpriced Vestax phono preamp. DJ's don't need tubes because people only want to hear the song. They don't care about the "warmth of vinyl". Most of the audiences (especially in todays music) dont' care about the sound quality until it hurts thier ears. They don't know why but it just hurts.

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On February 7, 2004, U-FESS said this:
Why are we stuck at 44.1kHz? I still don't understand what a D/A converter really is (can they be replaced with better ones?)

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On February 7, 2004, halfasemitone said this:
U-FESS - We are stuck at this sampling rate because it has been a standard for many years but that might change soon since MP3's can be played on some CD Players and just technology in general keep getting better. Much like how hi-8 used to be the standard but now DV is in action for video cameras.

D/A converters are digital to analog converters. They turn the digital representation of a complex waveform in data on an Audio Redbook standard CD into an analog representation of a complex waveform. This is so that we can connect a CD player almost any line level input source such as your mixer or your stereo reciever. Some receivers can actually do the converting for you. Which brings me to the question in your post.

Due to the lack of space in a pro CD player the D/A converter can only be so big and use so much computing power. So the companies that make them have to cut corners sometimes. Unlike the incredibly High high high hi-fi Cd players out there that come in two boxes (one for the CD tray , the other for the D/A converter) DJ CD players are designed to keep it compact in a way. The CDJ 1000 MK2 has a digital output on it. That way it just sends 1's and 0's to another source which can vary and help create a better sound. If you were to use, say an Apogee digital converter as opposed to just the analog out of a CDJ, you would get much better "sound" or representation of sound through it since the Apogee box was designed specifically to just that.... convert digital to analog.

You're right U-FESS they can be replaced with better ones eventually but it's not done by us. It's a decision that a company has to make.

By the way, good questions on your post. These are things that every DJ should know.

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On February 7, 2004, U-FESS said this:
halfasemitone - So if you have a CD player with digital output, a mixer with digital input and digital output, and a receiver with digital input, you really have no problem. A lot of mixers with digital input and S/PDIF optical and coax digital output have been comin' out. It's getting better; I think from now on, any CD player that comes out will definately be able to play MP3 CDs.

Numark have pretty big products, their turntables are big and bulky compared to others, and also their tabletop CD players.

I can't wait till I get to check out the CDX and the 5000FX mixer.

What'd you think of the Denon DN-X1500 mixer so far? And the Pioneer DVJ-X1? suspicious.gif

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On February 8, 2004, halfasemitone said this:
That's true, there have been mixers that have digital out's. Sometimes though these mixers convert the digital signal inside of it's self, mixes the two (or three or four and so on) signals THEN converts it BACK to digital to whatever source. Then THAT source has to convert out to analog since most professional power amps or live rig mixing boards don't have a digital in. Usually the D/A converter on that end of the chain is good. But when a DJ mixer manufacturer makes a D/A - mix the signal - A/D converter we run into few problems sometimes. The more you mess around with a signal the more the quality decreases, analog or digital. And that includes cable length too.

wow, the dvj-x1. Pioneer has done it again you guys. They've Pioneered, but it won't be long until we see knock offs of reverse engineered technology again. Wait till there's a DVX-1 by numark. A DVD player with a turntable direct drive interface. I bet we won't be debating about "digital sucks, why don't we just stay true, keep it real and use film? That's how it began anyway?"

But the new DJ mixers by pioneer are again reinventing the wheel. So far I've seen a LCD display on it. If you need to pay an extra how many hundreds of dollars just to have a screen just to tell you what curve you have it set to even though done it a million times in the past WITHOUT one, then I don't know. There's got to be more to that LCD display than just "curve information". That's all I saw the DJ happee video.

As for Denon mixers? Let me do some research on it but I've never been impressed by thier mixers though. I'll make a more educated answer once I've done my homework and get back to you.

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On February 8, 2004, U-FESS said this:
Well DVJ-X1 still doesn't have any effects I believe? Numark's already anounced a DVD01 dual DVD player, and also an HDCD1 dual CD player with a 40 GIG hard drive.

The Denon DN-X1500 mixer is a lot like the 5000FX that Numark just announced, all the effects. It has dual Beatkeepers that auto detect BPM's from two sources, "efects processor with interactive scratch/effect/pitch wheel." Effects include: scratching, sonar, chop, echo, delay, filter with vocal kill. 18 second auto buffering. onboard sampler with 30 sec of memory, smart looping, BPM synching.... pretty good mixer 8)

Pioneer's new DJM-909 I heard has kind of a touch screen for effects, but I'm not sure how it works.

The DXM06 is also a good mixer by Numark but it's only 2 channels.

So far, i'm not impresed by Numark's new PT01 portable turntable, but I still have to check it out further.

I like the TTX a lot and also the CDX, can't wait to get to try it.

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On February 8, 2004, Deft said this:
Yeah the DJM-909 touch screen just makes navigating through effects menus and suchlike easier.
It looks like the DVJ-X1 doesn't actually support DVD-Audio. You can make a blank video track and sneak the higher quality audio in there that way, but the specifications for audio within the DVD-Video standard are not as high as the specifications for the DVD-Audio standard.

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On February 8, 2004, Jake said this:
haha! I sit here and gripe about how technology is not quite up to snuff and then I find myself drooling over the new Numark and Denon products. Must be a illness. :P

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On February 8, 2004, U-FESS said this:
Jake - hehe, same here man... I almost shyte my pants when I first saw the Nummark CDX love.gif , and also their 5000FX mixer... Denon..... well, i'm not too impressed by their products usually, but their new DN-X1500 mixer looks good to me, it's a lot like the 5000FX.

I seriously don't know how I'm gonna survive over here until July when I can get my hands on a CDX oh.gif

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On February 8, 2004, Jake said this:
So the CDX is not released yet? I saw it in the PPSL catalog. It doesn't mention it being pre order status.

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On February 9, 2004, U-FESS said this:
Even if it was released, I can't do anything about it until July because I live in fucking Egypt :P It's terrible man, while my brother's in Miami managing one of the biggest clubs there, I'm stuck here.

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On February 9, 2004, halfasemitone said this:
Miami!!!!! That's awesome. I'm so down with the latin jazz scene. I want to go to Miami and cuba just to check out the latin salsa bands out there.

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On February 9, 2004, U-FESS said this:
Yeah Miami's the shyte man... I wanna go there again so bad, maybe I'll get to DJ at Crobar... :D

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On February 10, 2004, Ghost said this:
Gizmo, can you fix the first picture i wanna make a wallpaper out of it

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On February 11, 2004, 30 Cal said this:
Ghost- Try Right Clicking, save target as.

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On February 11, 2004, Gizmo said this:
Ghost - there's something odd about this. It's always worked fine for me and just about everyone else bar one other person. I've set and reset the link and as far as I can see, there's nothing wrong with it at all. huh.gif

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On February 11, 2004, 30 Cal said this:
If I click it I get a broken pic, but saving the picture, it works fine. Odd indeed.

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On February 11, 2004, Gizmo said this:
What is also odd is that without wading through the entire thread, nobody seems to give a rats ass about the mixer.

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On February 11, 2004, Ghost said this:
ha, yeah i noticed that too--about the mixer

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On February 12, 2004, professorbx said this:
Funny thing is, the mixer is actually seemingly a dope piece save for the lack of fx.....screwless fader area, true optical fader, fx sends....it could have been a contender save for that one detail.

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On February 15, 2004, back to the middle and around again said this:
ok seems like theres been a deviation from the orignal topic and there a some key questions that havent been answered namely -

can the technics fully support mp3s like the dns5000?

when is the numark cdx available i (in the uk?)?

as the denon is a year or so old is it lieky they will be bringing out a hotter version soon, if so anyone know anything about it? fx like on the cdx perhaps?

what about fx on the technics? and how big is the sample buffer memory? how long / many sample can it take? from external sources?

whats the d/a like on all of the decks discussed here comparitively? which on ehas the best performance and how does it compare to high end cd players as for the best part of a months wages id hope it was pretty shithot!

finally arent you all missing the point that its the MUSIC that counts not the methods behind it

anyway good discussions!

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On February 15, 2004, Alan said this:
I think they can support MP3's.

You can get memory cards of up to 1Gb which should be enough to hold a sample of just about any size. :D

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On February 15, 2004, Ghost said this:
yeah it does fully support mp3's

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On February 16, 2004, Gizmo said this:
It does support mp3, both from mp3cd or SD formats. As far as I'm aware (but I will confirm for you) the support is just like the Denons i.e. you can scratch from both media, not just play. 8)

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On February 16, 2004, 18.10 said this:
Where could I find some DZ1200's video?

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On February 16, 2004, U-FESS said this:
Gizmo or Deft or someone, gimme some more info on the CDX since you guys tried it out. I want to love it more than I already do.

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On February 16, 2004, Gizmo said this:
U-FESS - all we have is here - http://www.skratchworx.com//news//comments.php?id=35

All I can tell you is that from our brief experience at PLASA, it feels like just vinyl. We didn't get a chance to play with the features but the platter is the same as a TTX1.

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On February 19, 2004, halfasemitone said this:
The reason why I've never made a comment about the mixer is because I care only about the curve and the durability of the crossfader. Other than that it falls into the same category as other 4 channel mixers, big bulky and has too many channels. Does it have good turntable pre's? Doubt it. Features? Lots of course. But the price? I've retired DJ's on a 100 dollar American DJ battle deck. For me it's just the curve and the EQ cut. I done the whole "tweaking knobs so I look busy and I'm making it look hard so other people can oggle at me". I'm down with what "back to the middle and around again" said. The music. That's what it's all about. 100% .....pure - love.

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On February 24, 2004, Spinja said this:
Ya'll have a lot of valid points in the whole wax vs. cd discussion. Can't believe I actually read this entire threat smile1.gif I personally use both mediums and think it all comes down to how you utilize your "tools" - becuase at the end of the day, that's all they are. I think if a CD deck is to be truly accepted by the masses, it has to bring to the table all the functionality of it's predecessor (the turntable) without making compromises and also bring revolutionary, yet truly useful features (e.g. a more responsive feel, tracking accuracy, etc.). I could really care less if a deck will let me cue a hundred songs in advance while looping and mixing the last 20 beats I just played. I like to take it one song at a time and see how the crowd reacts, feel their energy, then I decide what to put on next. Isn't the whole reason why most of us started spinning was becuase we loved the music and wanted to share and express this to everyone else - whether it be at a party or a battle? I think we get too tied up with the technical aspect of our trade, that we sometimes forget the whole reason why we do what we do. But I digress.

My main concern with most of the new CD decks is durability. With the amount of electronics packed into these things it will be interesting how well they will hold up in the field. My 1200s have lasted years and years of abuse and are still going strong (with basic maintenance of course). I don't know how much basic maintenance the average DJ can perform on these decks. What will happen if you happen if your SD card reader fails or if your optics come out of alignment and won't track? It's not like you carry a spare laser assembly like you cary a spare needle and cartridge!

Does anybody know what kind of mechanism they use to track movements on the simulated platter - is it magetic, optical or electrical?

I agree with the knowledge that "back to the middle and around again" and halfasemitone droped, it's the music that truly counts.

sorry to write a novel, figured I had to get some paypack for reading this entire thread :D

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On February 24, 2004, Johnny T said this:
Halfasemitone - I don't know much about the inner workings of CD decks, but wouldn't speeding up or slowing down a track simply change the sample rate? eg. Original speed = 44,100 Hz, pitch up +1.0% and now the samples are being spat out at 44,541 Hz. There should be no loss of quality. It's very similar to changing the pitch on your turntable. So, I don't think this would contribute greatly to wavering pitch/tempo (unless the clock source was dodgey). What do you think?

I don't see any reason for time compression/expansion algorithms unless you are changing tempo & preserving pitch, or changing pitch & preserving tempo. Also, even though CD runs at 44,100 Hz, there's no reason why it can't be upsampled (say, to 192 kHz), and then processed more accurately. Same with the bit-depth (ie 16 bit --> 24 bit).

I'm a house DJ so I basically beat-mix, and little else. I find that keeping 2 tracks "locked" to each other actually depends on the vinyl pressing itself. I can grab 2 really well pressed records, match them up, and they'll stay pretty well glued to each other, with only VERY minor adjustments needed. I also have many records that speed up or slow down as the needle travels towards the centre. A nightmare to mix. So in this case, vinyl, as a medium, is not to blame. The problem lies in the mastering/pressing process. (NB These tracks are all sequenced, so their tempo is locked). Maybe in recent years, the standard of vinyl pressing has dropped?

Anyway, the new Technics SL-DZ1200's look like they are the answer to my prayers. They solve this problem and about 10 others I have with vinyl, which I have put up with over the years (most of which have been mentioned here). I don't know if they will cut it for the scratch DJ's. I guess time will tell.

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On February 25, 2004, nugen26 said this:
Do the CD Decks play burned CD's? Like can we make our own break records and use em? If so, we can also download all the singles too. No more record shopping?

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On March 1, 2004, Daiko said this:
I think they do, haven't seen a mp3cd for buying yet blink1.gif ?!

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On March 1, 2004, halfasemitone said this:
Yes Johnny T, this occurs when i you keep the pitch the same and change the tempo only. Upsampling is a costly feature in a Cd player. Plus you would need a great amount of processing power and cooling systems in order to pull off a half decent sounding setup.

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On March 1, 2004, Gizmo said this:
nungen26 - they do play burned cd's.

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On March 2, 2004, Johnny T said this:
Yes, they do play CD-R discs (and i've heard that they also accept CD-RW discs). See the pictures at: http://www.dancefrontdoor.co.uk/article1464.html

Does anyone know the resolution of the pitch slider? ie When adjusting the pitch, what is the smallest step up or down you can perform?

I noticed that when the deck is in +/-8% mode, it displays 0.00%.
So it's likely to be 0.05 , 0.02 , or 0.01 . But i'm just guessing.

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On March 2, 2004, ZZO said this:
I had a go on one of these. 3 words, BAG OF WANK, never have i played on such a bad cd deck in relation to the price, was awful. mad.gif

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On March 11, 2004, dj johnbalu said this:
i like it technics when comes to machine for dj's so where they release.. :D

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On March 26, 2004, Daiko said this:
Panasonic Germany says it's avaible on 01/06/2004 :-(

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On March 26, 2004, DJ Judge Mental said this:
I may have missed it...but has anyone here actually placed their hands on the new Tech DZ-1200?

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On April 1, 2004, Daiko said this:

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On September 24, 2004, JORGE said this:
Hi everybody!

I've read all the above stuff....and nobody gives a clear answer :
Which CD deck is currently the best ? A lot of people say that the CD technics pitch is really crap compared to the analog one.

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On October 5, 2004, Jensen said this:
my question is with all this asking about part and what not..... IS IT WORTH BUYING???

Technics SL-DZ1200 Direct-Drive digital turntable, IS this Worth buying i really cant read all them post you got here but can you just list the pros and cons with this machine i really appreciate it...

after 4 months of saving i finally have enough to buy it w/ its Digital mixer thats come along with it, however i wanna know what you gotta say GIZMO and the REST....

sw_smilie.png Dj Headache

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On November 26, 2004, g-nicest said this:
iI recently purchased 2 new sldz1200's and matching mixer-i was initally over-whelmed with the dazzling look and feel. Confused relearning and utilizing special functions and ultimately disappointed with being unable to scratch in the pitch lock mode. Bottom line, however is there is nothing else on the market with the tactile feel of a vinyl TT that this deck has managed to reproduce. I love the feel-within minutes i was easily able to manipulate, smoothly blend and scratch the hell out of records by manipulating the live platter.I also own a pair of denon5000's and all though chocked full of awesome effects and gizmos they don't come close to feeling like a turntable-I currently own 6 technic 1200 analog TTs and after a week with the sldz's I'm ready to sell 4 of them.I only hope in the near future Technics will be able to fix/upgrade the pitchlock problem.

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On November 26, 2004, g-nicest said this:
I should add I've not had any hands on with the CDX which might be able to rival the sldz's vinyl feel-p.s. I'm relatively new at the cd deejaying game but have been a vinyl jock more than 20 years-my cd collection dwarfs my vinyl collection which is is currently about 20-25 crates and atleast a dozen 45 coffins-yes I've been at it along time. I've held off performing with cd's because they could not be manipulated like records (I refuse to be a cuepoint mix deejay) With the advent of cdx and the new 1200's these days of "holding off" may be numbered!







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